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felisviolaceous) wrote2005-03-26 06:21 pm
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Ok...I AM an adult. I am 31 years old. I am a parent of an 8 yr old. I am living in and paying for a house not renting. I work at an 8 to 5 job. And yet...I get treated and responded to like I'm a teenager or younger.
I have many times noticed that I'm just the teenager trying to fit in with the adults in crowds, on lists, and even on live journal. I join a conversation with some good points and get my head patted on, humoursly smiled at and then told to go run along and play. This has happened too MANY times for me to not notice this. It's frustrating...disheartening...and just downright depressing!!!! I don't like being ignored. And yes...right now I AM acting like a pouty child who got ignored one too many times...but hell...that's how I get treated so why not act like one?
So what if I actually enjoy myself at functions that are supposed to be enjoyable. So what if I actually laugh in a way that Santa Claus would be proud of. So what if I live life to it's upmost fullest. That doesn't mean I'm immature or childish. It just means that I learned the lesson that my Father lived every day of his life...to live with laughter and joy in your life!!
Now...I don't expect people to respond to this post . You didn't before why should you now. But I do hope some of you will be brave enough to answer me this one question.
What is it that actually makes one person view and then treat and then talk to another person like an adult!!!
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Luv the peeved-cats icon, btw -- especially the wet ones with the "What did I do to deserve this humiliation?" look goin' on....
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I think that a lot of folks buy into the "ignorance is bliss" idea, and they extrapolate from that the idea that bliss is ignorance. It simply isn't true...two of my best friends, both valedictorians of their classes, are some of the happiest (and goofiest) people you'll ever meet.
I think jealousy play a role in there, too...people resent happiness in others if they don't have it themselves, and from there it's easy for them to twist it into a sour-grapes insult.
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As to your primary question, "What is it that actually makes one person view and then treat and then talk to another person like an adult?" - to me, it is that the other person demonstrates in some way that they want to be treated that way and are capable of responding as an adult.
I look for a certain degree of intelligence (you far exceed it), self-awareness (again, you more than qualify), and for that person to take personal responsibility for him/her self (I have no indication that you do not do this).
As far as I can tell, you meet all of the criteria I use for treating someone as an adult. If I haven't been, I have made a mistake in judgement and I owe you an apology. Is that the case?
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I haven't any really useful advice here. People have to get to know you to see you for what you are. I think it was well worth the effort, but I don't know how long other will work at it.
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But I will say one thing about not getting replies on LJ/mailing lists/etc.
With Usenet newsgroups, there's a phenomenon called "Usenet nod" (
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E-mail away! :D
Yes...I know there are those that don't respond to well written posts...but I also know there are many out there that are so much into arguing that I should have been burnt to a crisp in 2 minutes flat, no matter how well stated my points are or even how much they agree...it's the principal of arguing they are after.
Anyway...yes, it's ok with me for you to e-mail me. :)
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Sorry it took so long to respond. I was outta town this weekend. I read this post as well as the sort of "meta" post on
I think folks hit it on the head here when they say that people treat you as though you were a young piece of "fluff" based solely on superficial reasons. First, you're a young-looking and attractive female. There's all sorts of cultural baggage attached to that. Second, you are fairly open and unabashed about expressing joy in your life. People who are truly joyful tend to be seen as "less serious". After all, life is struggle and if you always seem to be enjoying yourself then you must not be taking life seriously. Right? You're, therefore, too naive and/or too stupid to see that you should be constantly stressed and worried. You're allowed only brief episodes of enjoyment before you go back to the "proper" state of worry. It's a dumbass way to view people, but there it is. The masses tend to assume if you go around with a furrowed brow then you must be thinking Deep Thoughts and are clearly concerned with Matters Of Great Import. In fact it usually means you need to effing relax, already⁄!!! (I speak as one of those uptight worrywarts)
Your third strike is, of course, your southern accent. Doesn't matter if you're an award winning surgeon, a military genius, or a particle physicist, the accent says "hick" even to people who should know better. You can get away with the accent if you appear older and somewhat somber. Then it implies you have that solid "down-to-earth" wisdom we associate with people like Tommy Lee Jones. If you're young, happy, and twang your words, well, you must just be a happy-go-lucky hayseed with a name like Cindy Lou or somesuch. Even other southerners will fall into this and call you "darlin'" or "hon" without thinking about the implications. I have been guilty of this myself and I officially apologize to you (or anyone reading this) if such casual terms of endearment have been demeaning.
I'm sorry that things which should be an advantage have caused you such grief. I'm sorry, too, for any part I may have inadvertantly played in this. For example, I haven't yet answered your "ask me 4 questions" post because I was torn between "What is your basic worldview?" type-questions and dumbass "Would you be interested in having sex with me" nonesense questions. You've given me a lot to think about with regards to first impressions and stereotyping. I often think about it with regards to people of my skin color, but I sometimes forget that prejudice is a huge "crap sandwich" and we all have to take a bite.
Peace.
p.s. I, too, have the irritating experience of looking for LJ responses or commenting on a thread only to get nothing back. It's not just you, friend.
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Being a very attractive woman, some people might find you intimidating, unapproachable, and "out-of-their-league".
I know because I've struggled with such issues all of my life. They stem from my own damaged feelings of self-worth and are then reinforced by the constant barrage of idol-worship our culture pours upon the "good-looking", whatever the current definition is. Some of the condescension and dismissal you experience may come as a defensive reaction to this insecurity, though I don't believe, at least I hope, that I haven't personally had this attitude towards you.
I can assure you that I have nothing but respect for you. Just the fact that you're a single parent is enough to put me in awe. As the father of a 9 year old, I can't imagine how it would be to do it all on my own. You're my hero for that alone.
Plus on top of that, you are connected to some of the best people I know, and you have the courage to be a sex-positive woman in today's society.
As far as your accent goes, my father is from Lubbock. Starting with him, I have known many highly intelligent native Texans and Southerners in my day.
tips and tricks
I have also dealt with the issues that you are dealing with. Being petite, pretty, and bubbly isn’t all it’s cracked up to be when you are in the market for a little respect. It’s especially difficult when these traits are combined with a tendency to be submissive, be it everyday or just for play. And although it’s great that your friends respect you, knowing this isn’t going to change a thing about the way that they treat you!
Once patterns of interaction have been established, it’s like pulling teeth to change them. Even when people close to you agree that you deserve respect and try to change, old habits are hard to break. To get people to change how they treat you, you have to change the way that you act. I know you want to stay the way you are (which seems like a wonderful way to be) and still get the respect, but as much as you want it, it ain’t gunna happen.
If you want to change, here are some ideas of how you can do it and keep your personality intact.
Corporate America. First, bubbly doesn’t work in a corporate environment. The Corporate World is still white-male-dominated, no matter what people say about Affirmative Action taking root in modern America. If you want respect at work, you have to demand it. Be ultra-professional. Dress a little better/more conservative than everyone else. Read a book on assertiveness. Never cry, and never scream. If you absolutely have to, go outside and do it in the car. The trick is to state the facts firmly and concisely, and have your bases covered in case there is dissent. I’m pretty sure that these tricks have made the difference between promotion and unemployment for me.
Social Settings with Close Friends. You like to laugh. You have an outward nature that people might describe as sweet or cute. This has been described as one of your best qualities, and I don’t blame you for not wanting to change it. But the way that you’ve described things, close friends are reacting to this as if you were a child, even though they admit that you are intelligent and have a lot to offer. The only way to break your friends of this habit is to call them on it, every time they do it. You don’t have to stop being sweet or bubbly or even nice. Wait for a pause in the conversation and then, in a friendly, joking way, let them know that they’re “at it again.” Say something to the effect of “Um…excuse me, but now that I’ve got my driver’s license can I sit at the grown-up table?” This will serve as a gentle reminder for people with whom you have discussed this problem already.
Social Settings with Acquaintances. This is a little more troublesome. These people may already have stereotyped you. They need more than a reminder, because they aren’t aware of the problem. To make things worse, you feel shy and uncomfortable in new social situations, which makes it even more difficult for you. Try reading an assertiveness book. Your Perfect Right by Robert Alberti and Michael Emmons comes highly recommended. You need to learn that you can keep your personality—friendly, bubbly, and fun—and still get people to take you seriously.
Interactions with Jerks. What about the people who seem to give us less and less respect and attention the more we demand it? If possible, ignore them. They are not worth your time. But if you must deal with people like this, do it with kindness (preferably in a public place). Use your intelligence to speak calmly and simply, shaming them into acting (and treating you) like an adult.
Sorry for such a long post. I just feel your pain and hope I can help a little with the wisdom of one who has been in similar situations.
This is probably outta line of me, but...
Except for briefly at the last party I attended, I haven't had any *real* conversations with you. I now find myself very much wanting to.
And, yeah! You and
(James Earl Jones voice) "I shall have them both. Bathe them. And have them brought to my tent."
Re: This is probably outta line of me, but...
Re: This is probably outta line of me, but...
Ciao!
Re: This is probably outta line of me, but...
(James Earl Jones voice) "I shall have them both. Bathe them. And have them brought to my tent."
Wheeeeee! But..um...can we make a request? Can you do the bathing yourself? [bats eyes]
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If it makes you feel better, I'm often treated like a little kid, usually in person though, and I think a lot of it is just that I'm small and I look young.