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[personal profile] felisviolaceous
 http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/03/gop-rep-im-struggling-on-my-174k-salary-video.php

I saw this link on Facebook.  The guy has 6 children.  And considering how much my husband and I are making combined and are struggling with just one child and a mortgage and still try to have some decent fun in between....I can kind of understand...a little.  Wish we could be making over $170,000 a year!!!!!  BTW...that's just his money.

Anyway...the thing that triggered me was "6 children".  Really????  That many??  WHY????

Now China's One Child Policy...seems a bit harsh.  I mean... to deprive your child of a sibling...(I have a brother :D )...and if you really have the type of family that really is great and supportive then the experience of one should happen again.  We're humans...we like our good experiences and want them over and over again.  Right?

I say let them at least have two and then stop.  Sorry if you don't get your boy to carry the family name...but you got to at least have your drug one more time.

But, over here in US, and this is the part that will get me shot, we have religion that requires us to breed...and breed...and breed.  We have religion that says that sex is for procreation only, so when a couple finally enjoys one of life's most enjoyable events...suddenly we have more children that really aren't wanted but "god" is punishing us for having a harmless enjoyable time together.  Children???? as punishment????  That's what it looks like from my prospective when I view certain unsavory family dynamics.  (btw...my family's dynamic is AWESOME because they did want us. :D )
 
And now, it's punishment forced on this nation and worse our public workers.  "I have six children I need to support!!  One hundred and seventyfour thousand dollars a year is NOT enough to support that big of a family!!"  THEN DON'T HAVE THAT FUCKING MANY CHILDREN!!!!
 
US should now enforce 2 children rule.  Reduce population growth...reduce welfare...reduce people having children to STAY on welfare...and heck, it might even reduce the spread of venereal diseases because government is forced to support pregnancy protection *THE HORROR!!*
 
Ok...drunken rant done.  Please don't shoot me!!

 
(deleted comment)

Date: 2011-03-30 11:43 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] felisviolaceous.livejournal.com
We still have population growth from births...possibly starting from the massive amount of immigrants having multiple babies to stay here and to stay on welfare.

And as for educated women...well...the very republican politician in the above story, that's making $174,000 a year, along with all other corporate bought politicians is working hard to reduce that as well by firing all our teachers because America just doesn't have enough money to pay for them. I'm thinking it's because all our tax money is paying for politician's to have a "barely making it" salary.

Date: 2011-03-30 01:29 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] made-of-paradox.livejournal.com
Not going to shoot you. :)

I have a few counterarguments.

1) I know of a couple who have had 14 children. 10 or so of them are still at home. They are making it on his salary. (The oldest 2 are dead, both died in their 20s.) They're not being irresponsible, they're capable of having made that many babies and taking good care of them as they grow up.

2) Spontaneous triplets. Happened to someone I've known. :)

3) Second time around, getting twins. Just naturally. It's hard enough going out with 3 young kids very close in age now, that policy would make it harder, mostly from all the snide comments. (Snide comments happen when you go out with little twins. It's infuriating.)

4) Women not educated by their doctors that, hey, antibiotics (and other drugs, I'm sure) interfere with the effectiveness of birth control pills! I've known 2 moms whose third child (after twins in both cases) happened that way. (I may know a lot more than that, but I can definitely say that J. and M. had that happen, and they warned other moms about that possibility. The 4th child of the 'spontaneous triplets' mom may have come from that sort of issue, as well, I don't remember for sure. She got her tubes tied with the delivery on that one!)

As long as it looks like you're in a position to support all the kids you have, I have no problem with you having more. And, you can support a family of 8 on that much! I know a family of 7 that's getting by just fine on less than that! Stupid politician doesn't know how to budget - so he should be voted out of office!

just an FYI to others on here..

Date: 2011-03-30 09:51 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] jenmarie.livejournal.com
... we're not the J. and M. referenced. I've been well aware of the antibiotic/Pill issue since my teens, thank goodness. :D

I'd also have to disagree with [livejournal.com profile] felisviolaceous that the religious component is a major one. Yes, it is within certain subsets of the population, but the moms you see in post-partum with umpteen kids (who are all on the public dole) are mostly Caucasian and African-American. Usually they're by different dads and the moms started at a very young age.

I am opposed to a child limit imposed on the general population, but I've thought that Norplant or Depo shots as a pre-req to getting a welfare check or similar isn't a terrible idea. I'm sure there are many who would disagree with me there, though. ;)

Re: just an FYI to others on here..

Date: 2011-03-31 03:26 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] made-of-paradox.livejournal.com
The J. and the M. were 2 different mothers, neither of which I would expect anyone reading this to know, actually. I used initials like that because using first & last initials might be a bit much, and using entire first names would get more confusing, because we all know people with the same first names as those moms.

I'd worry about the Norplant or Depo as a pre-req to welfare just on the basis of some women not tolerating that sort of birth control, and pitting a woman's biology against the needs of her existing children isn't a good thing. However, if there were some not-too-difficult-to-reverse sterilization procedure available, I'd be somewhat more OK with that being a pre-req.

Re: just an FYI to others on here..

Date: 2011-04-26 01:57 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lihan161051.livejournal.com
There is one specific and very large group within the neopentecostal fundamentalist movement that does believe in having as many children as physically possible, for various reasons that basically add up to breeding the larger neopentecostal movement into a voting majority and/or gain future advantages in other ways. Google "quiverfull" for more info.

I won't argue with you that poverty and lack of both education and access to family planning services are a big factor in that (and possibly contribute to the success of the quiverfull folks as well!), but on that score, we have a major party in Congress that has made a show of latching onto a *known fabricated* story from a partisan video blogger as an excuse to completely defund at least one major provider of both education and family planning services and taking advantage of common misperceptions about that provider to do so. That's a different branch of the same overall campaign, but it's definitely related.

And it is within certain subsets of the population. But those subsets are very vocal, highly organized, and coordinating their efforts in ways most people don't see.

Date: 2011-04-27 03:08 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lihan161051.livejournal.com
(Snide comments happen when you go out with little twins. It's infuriating.)

Snide comments are infuriating in general, regardless of the subject. That particular subject, especially so, even before considering the specific twins in question, and considering those two, even more so than that. :(

Stupid politician doesn't know how to budget - so he should be voted out of office!

Being able to budget would seem to be a basic qualification of that office, so .. yeah ..

Date: 2011-04-27 03:14 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] made-of-paradox.livejournal.com
Honestly, as soon as it was feasible to arrange the 3 children on/around a shopping cart in such a way that it wasn't easy to tell that 2 of them were twins, I started doing that.

Most of the comments about redheads were positive. :)

(I've heard an awful lot of reports of people being mean to mothers of infant or toddler twins when they're out. I get really mad just reading them.)

Date: 2011-04-26 01:48 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lihan161051.livejournal.com
But, over here in US, and this is the part that will get me shot, we have religion that requires us to breed...and breed...and breed. We have religion that says that sex is for procreation only, so when a couple finally enjoys one of life's most enjoyable events...suddenly we have more children that really aren't wanted but "god" is punishing us for having a harmless enjoyable time together. Children???? as punishment???? That's what it looks like from my prospective when I view certain unsavory family dynamics.

You've got some good points there, and I know exactly which religious movement you're talking about with regard to breeding endlessly and there are some really dark sides to that. My problem isn't with the having kids one after the other -- some families can handle that, some can't -- but with the intent behind it, and the dysfunctional and destructive attitudes toward sex and pleasure in general that are behind that.

(There *is* a serious problem with 7 billion people on a planet that can maybe support 2-3 billion, but aside from the "quiverfull" families, I think the USA probably isn't the worst offender there, however much we may be feeling the backlash from it. I think on *that* score, yeah, maybe there's an argument for placing restrictions on family size. But that's an extremely complex argument with a lot of hidden gotchas in it..)

Date: 2011-04-26 01:58 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lihan161051.livejournal.com
And I won't shoot you either. ;)

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